Archive for the 'Debate' Category



Can you fill me in?

OK so we haven’t published many posts recently but just like Greg Knight, we do work for you.  First of all I’d like to introduce you to some new additions to the Interns Anonymous TEAM, who will shortly appear on our ‘about’ page, if all goes to plan.

This is Joe, he is a maths teacher who used to be an intern and in his spare time (teachers don’t normally have spare time) he likes to read about contract law and National Minimum Wage legislation. One day he will rule the world through his extensive knowledge of all of employment law.

This is Kim, she is working in the Department of Health after having done some interning and also not being able to afford interning (and feeling angry about interning). Joe and Kim have come with us to meetings, generally helped strategise and frankly been crazily well informed. Hurrah! (p.s. I promise they aren’t unpaid interns…)

Second of all I’ll give you a short run down of the meetings we went to at BIS and Nick Clegg’s policy unit. At BIS we were discussing guidance for employers re: NMW legislation, so what should the government say to employers who are thinking about taking on an intern and wondering whether or not they should pay them? The civil servants we talked to were very receptive to our opinions but on the other hand budget restrictions and cuts to the NMW staff make it difficult to see how any impact is going to be made by the updated guidance. We’ll see.

At Nick Clegg’s (alas sans Clegg) we went to a ‘round table discussion’, except it was in a small airless room in the Cabinet Office around a rectangular table. This was very interesting and we were glad to be asked- there were all sorts there (unions, interny people, employers’ representatives) and encouragingly we all agreed on a lot of points. The slight elephant in the room (at least for me) was the disconnect between professed policy aims and the message from politicians. One example of this is the lack of political will regards changing the internship situation in Westminster (i.e. that most internships are unpaid and therefore the preserve of those from wealthy backgrounds)- a sense that it was impossible to urge MPs to get their own house in order- it’s these kinds of contradictions which make talking about internships frustrating a lot of the time.

In other news, Intern Aware  have been doing stirling work- this story about Lyn Brown  would be a classic if it wasn’t so depressing. When will they learn, the blighters!

Becky from Internocracy apparently trounced Inspiring Interns at a debate on the ethics of unpaid internships at the Frontline Club

And finally, here is an interesting article from an intern about, well, internships- and some recent controversies. Please keep writing in with your internship stories, good, bad and ugly and we’ll keep you filled in…

Survey for Interns in Europe- DO IT!

The European Youth Forum is taking the initiative and trying to improve internships ACROSS EUROPE. To do this they need to get a handle on the problem- so y’all need to tell them about it! We like people who think big so please help them by filling in their survey if you have interned or are interning…

A survey “Interns Revealed” is circulating until July 7 to collect enough responses to back the advocacy work with the very much needed numbers and statistics. Any help from your side to spread it will be greatly appreciated.  We have 2000 responses so far, only 188 from UK so we would really need you help with this.

How paid staff view interns

Currently I am reading Ross Perlin’s book while coming to the end of two 3-month part-time internships, one with a tiny NGO and the other with an MP, and trying to figure out where I go from here.

I have come to the conclusion that doing more unpaid internships after this is not a good idea because it won’t look good on my CV: people will assume that I am from a privileged background and that daddy and mummy are providing for me so I can work for free, whereas the reality is that I studied hard as an undergraduate, secured generous funding to do a PhD and, post-PhD, have some of that funding saved up to enable me to explore different career options in an economic climate where every paid job I apply to has several hundred other applicants.

With regard to the assumptions people make about interns, my experience in the MP’s office is particularly amusing. On the one hand the office relies on a steady stream of interns doing identical work to paid employees. On the other hand, I have heard the paid employees making remarks that display resentment towards “rich kids who can afford to do unpaid internships.” These remarks were not directed at me, but were directed at a particular well-known journalist who is perceived to have got to her current position after 2 years of unpaid internships. Nevertheless it struck me as particularly foolish, clumsy or rude that these remarks were made in front of me when I have contributed so much to the work of the office, and when the work of the office relies on the contributions of at least one unpaid intern at all times.

On the whole, I have found both internships incredibly useful, giving me experience, knowledge and access that would otherwise be extremely hard to come by. On the whole, the paid staff I have been working with have been extremely patient, kind and generous with their time. They have gone out of their way to make sure that much of the work I am doing is related to the particular interests I specified at the outset, and they have also gone out of their way to help me with job applications, making recommendations for where and how to look for jobs, and where and how to apply. In both internships I have been either put in touch with contacts of paid employees who might be able to help me with specific jobs, or paid employees have put in a good word for me with someone they know in the office where I am applying for a paid position.

I believe that the main problem with internships is that in my experience what is happening is that an unpaid individual with no rights is doing identical work to a paid employee with full rights. Yes, an internship presents an opportunity for an individual to get a foot in the door. The danger is that in the current economic climate an internship may become the only way to get a foot in the door – and, as a result, become the norm. If the MP’s office stopped taking on interns they would simply have to reduce their workload or apply for an increase to the office budget to pay for more staff.

Ultimately this is what I believe they should do, but currently there is no incentive for them to do so. The state could provide that incentive. I believe that tighter regulation of internships is needed to ensure that unpaid interns are not doing identical work to paid employees, and that interns who are doing identical work to paid employees are paid the national minimum wage.

Imagine a day without interns on Wednesday 8 June, 12-2pm

Calling all interns! Unpaid or underpaid internships are illegal. Interns “should be paid if they have a list of duties and work set hours,” as per National Minimum Wage legislation.

Come show politicians your support for the INTERN BILL OF RIGHTS! The NUS, ULU, Unite, Intern Aware, Interns Anonymous and Ross Perlin, author of Intern Nation, want politicians to come face-to-face with the exploitation faced by young people working for free across the country – show how much you contribute to the UK economy outside the House of Commons.

Please let us know of your interest- and/or to get more inf0- email susan.nash@nus.org.uk with your name, postcode and state whether you are currently doing a internship.

This is how sad your employer will be without you...

Even the NHS isn’t safe

The following was sent in to us by one of our kind readers:

I am horrified to see on the NHS Jobs website, that there are “business apprenticeships” for basic admin work.  Although there is a  certain amount of learning and training on the job connected with any specific role,  there is no excuse to pay a low rate (£95 for 37.5 hrs in London)  for a filing, photocopying, phone messages, administration job.   In my experience, everyone in lower grades of admin. work in the NHS is subjected to  very heavy workloads.  Surely anyone who is doing a necessary job such as keeping patients’ records in order deserves to be paid a reasonable salary.

Employers have the right to ask for applicants to have Business Studies qualifications, or good GCSE results, or A levels or a degree.   Anyone with such qualifications and perhaps a couple of weeks work experience obviously has the ability to carry out an administrative job and no year of “training” is necessary in an NHS admin role.

I have  broad experience of working in the NHS as a PA secretary and administrator, and I can see absolutely no excuse for the NHS to take advantage of young people in this way.

CLICK HERE TO SEE THE PDF OF THE JOB ADVERT

 

 

 

 

Another book mention! ‘Intern Nation’ by Ross Perlin

We’re very pleased to announce that another book has been published which mentions Interns Anonymous- Perlin has taken an entertaining look at internship culture in the US and mentions the UK along the way:

Ross Perlin’s myth-busting exposé of the brave new world of unpaid work is a witty yet serious investigation of the well-trodden part of internships. Writer, multi-linguist and former intern, Perlin takes the reader inside the private and public sectors, journalism, boutique charities and mega corporations such as Disney. Furthermore, he inspects how many thrifty universities run lucrative study-abroad “destination internship” schemes and exchange student labour for cheap academic credit where little to no learning takes place. Referring to historians about what unleashed this phenomenon, Perlin unravels the cultural and professional rhetoric surrounding internships, from its beginnings in the nineteenth-century hospital to its next base in the political realm, on Capitol Hill.

CLICK HERE TO FIND OUT MORE AND BUY A COPY!

14 unsalaried staff- an all-time record?

This message came in the post. We’ve heard about offices of 10 people run by interns….but never 14…

16 staff, plus the boss. Only two are salaried. Thirteen languages spoken by 14 people, with 17 university degrees. The daily wage covers rent. Just. It represents about two thirds of the national minimum wage. There is no sick-day allowance, and no paid leave.

Last week I worked 59 hours. I ate at my desk. This is normal. My name does not appear on any of the work I produce, or any of the correspondence I write.

We  work less than 2km from the International Labour Organisation, in a city ranked as 5th most expensive in the world. (Mercer 2010 cost of  living ranking)

14 people, who want to use their skills to improve the lives of the other 7 billion.

We  hear that the global economy may be recovering. But what should the generation do who fell into the employment black hole, where real jobs  were replaced by internships? “Unpaid, full-time, 6 months minimum, PhD  preferred…”

14 people, who represent many more.

We  don’t have savings, we’re graduates. We have debt. And we didn’t accumulate that debt at some of the best universities in the world in order to spend our lives on the same terms as our high-school work experience.

Experience is valuable. So is a salary.

Anon.

The dignity of interning

Interesting article over at Spiked. I promise I’m not being sarcastic- the author James Howell describes IA as narcissistic and whining but he also brings up a classic point, which is that there is nothing wrong with ambition and struggle to get where you want. I agree with that- but I obviously disagree with most of the article- I do think he has conveniently ignored the fact that some internships are obviously replacement entry level jobs (for anecdotal evidence- here’s an example)  and the problems with the government seeing internships as a cure-all for youth unemployment, which they obviously aren’t. Article in full follows-

OK, it’s time to put interning in perspective

UK deputy prime minister Nick Clegg probably thinks he is doing the less well-off a favour by having a go at the middle-class ‘monopoly’ on internships in competitive industries. But all he is really doing is feeding the woe-is-me attitude of recent graduates and sustaining the narcissistic whining of campaign groups such as Internocracy and Interns Anonymous. This isn’t what graduates need. Rather than excuses, what graduates need is to rise to the challenge.

You’d think, given much of the recent hysteria around internships, that if you weren’t born with a silver spoon in your mouth then it’d be well nigh impossible to become an intern after graduating. Clegg’s recent assertion that internships are ‘almost the exclusive preserve of the sharp-elbowed and the well-connected’ came soon after revelations that the Tories auctioned off city internships at a Conservative Ball.

Even those who do get internships talk of the ‘monstrous exploitation’ that takes place amongst ‘slave labour graduates’. As one intern in the fashion industry puts it: ‘It’s slave labour, but I knew that if I didn’t take the role, it would go to someone else.’ 

Unsurprisingly, given such sentiments, a number of advocacy groups have recently emerged – often set up by young graduates – such as Interns Anonymous, Interns Aware and Internocracy. All of the groups deploy the same rhetoric of exploitation, cruelty and exclusion, and some routinely name and shame the ‘worst offenders’.

Internocracy, one of the most vocal intern campaign groups, is primarily lobbying for two things: firstly, that an intern’s background should be disregarded, and secondly that the internships must be good quality and are not just ‘executive tea duty’. The group asserts that it is technically ‘illegal’ not to pay interns. Becky Heath, CEO of Internocracy, says: ‘When such low numbers of young people and employers actually understand the rights interns have in the workplace, it’s no wonder that exploitation is rife in popular sectors.’

The Interns Anonymous website, meanwhile, exhibits a short documentary entitled Young, Talented and Working for Free. Featuring short interviews with former interns, the main – perhaps only – point it makes is that it is financially impossible to have an internship unless you are from a wealthy background.

There is a problem with this argument, however. It isn’t true. Without trying to sound holier-than-thou, I moved to London to study knowing full well that if I was to pursue a career as a journalist I would need to get internships and work experience. I don’t expect to leave university and get it all on a plate. And I don’t, as some newspapers are calling it, need a ‘Clegg up’ to help me realise my ambitions.

Furthermore, interns are not the modern-day proletariat, or the secret exploited masses that drive the British economy forward. Rather, internships are a way of gaining experience, contacts and a taste of working in that industry. As an intern, expecting anything apart from help and direction – in my case with my writing – is incredibly arrogant.

Companies invest considerable time and resources in training interns and, more often than not, don’t just draft in interns to save on staff costs. In continually calling for more privileges, groups like Interns Anonymous seem to struggle to get to grips with the idea that interns are interns, despite the fact that there’s currently an extremely competitive job market.

Let’s say that companies are forced to pay interns. If that happens, then these schemes simply cease to be internships; they will become something more akin to job creation or youth training schemes. Such paid positions, where they exist, will probably be looked upon as an onerous duty by employers and an opportunity to make money by young people. The things that are specific to interning – young people showing initiative and employers selecting and remembering those who make an impact – will be gone.

I have really been struck by interns’ sense of self-importance and complete lack of self-awareness. For example, one intern on the Interns Anonymous documentary states: ‘I don’t get any support from my parents; I’ve basically been hosting pub quizzes five nights a week. I go to my internship then I go to the pub, it’s been a real struggle.’

But is struggling to be successful such a bad thing? As spiked editor Brendan O’Neill has written recently, ‘working-class youth will fare far better fighting tooth and nail for opportunities in an unequal society than they would under the patronising poor-people promotion scheme drawn up by Clegg and his mates over caffè macchiatos’.

The reason for the woe-is-me attitude held by interns often stems from a sense of academic superiority that comes from studying for a degree. Little wonder that many interns tend to be of the opinion that they are genuine members of staff and that the survival of the company depends almost solely upon them.

This sense of superiority is unfounded. Many students wrongly see getting a degree as being a stepping stone into the workplace. This treats universities as little more than vocational training courses, in which people make an investment of time and money and become automatically irresistible in the job market. This instrumentalisation of higher education means that students mistakenly see their time at universities not as an opportunity to obtain knowledge for its own sake, whether in maths or philosophy, but rather to boost their employability.

When graduates realise that three years and a heap of monstrous debt has actually left them in a worse position than they might otherwise have been in, they seem to lapse into self-pity mode and demand that the adult world helps them out. Indeed at a recent Westminster Education Forum, a representative from Internocracy argued that it was unfair that many internship placements were concentrated in London and the South East. Her argument literally seems to be that businesses – and indeed the world – should revolve around people like her.

Young graduates need to stop whinging that they are ‘victims of the system’. They are nothing of the sort. Interns and groups like Internocracy and Interns Anonymous need to get over themselves, stop shying away from a bit of hard work and realise how much they have to learn from employers. They might then realise the true value of internships.

James Howell is a second-year student at Goldsmiths, University of London and a former spiked intern.

New Statesman – A second opinion

When I started, I knew I was already going to be out of pocket. My train fare exceeded what I would get back from the magazine’s “London travel expenses only” policy.  So I was actually paying £10 a day to come in and work. More fool me perhaps, but I thought experience at a national title would be worth the £300 + hit to my bank account.

The interns there had a number of time-consuming but important jobs. The dullest was uploading agency content to the NS website from someone in India who aggregated the contents of the main newspapers as they went live at 12-1am. This job took three editorial interns between 3-4 hours a day to do. It was drudgework. So a number of the articles on the NS website are there for next to nothing, because they pay an Indian a paltry wage to generate the words, which are pilfered from work done by another newspaper, then uploaded for free by an unpaid intern. All this from a left-wing magazine, which frequently calls for social justice, and rails against the iniquities of globalisation.

On I think five occasions I was made to come in at 6am in order to prepare the daily mail shot to subscribers, comprising a daily digest of articles. Again, no byline, no real supervision, but it was a necessary job and it required time, all to the benefit of the business.

Another task was transcription. All interviews while I was there were transcribed by editorial interns. Typing at a fair clip an interview might take an hour or two to get down. Of course, only a tiny fraction of the interview would be used in published copy. But given the resource was free it’s certainly a luxury for a journalist to have a pool of amanuenses to hand.

More generally, the experience itself was a bit of shambles from the first day, with no proper introductions, tour etc. The overriding impression is of a conveyor belt of free labour, doing all the churn work, so paid editorial staff can get on with producing the print copy.

And at the end no exit interview, no feedback, no tips for the future, just a “thanks, bye” and an offer that if I wanted to submit articles, they might publish them online  - (again unpaid).  It took around six weeks and several rounds of chasing to get my (partial) expenses reimbursed.

But it wasn’t all bad.  Editorial interns were invited to the main weekly editorial meeting. We also got to post an occasional article with a byline (online).  If you get a full-time job there, the NS seems like a great place to work. The team are generally very friendly, and happy to take a couple of minutes to talk something through.  But that’s about it.

My six weeks there were enough to put me off doing any further work experience. Handing more of my own money (and time) over to another media business to help keep them afloat is untenable and manifestly unfair.

I have no doubt that the NS is to a large extent financially reliant on interns.  My estimate from having talked to other interns is that around 1/3 of the editorial staff at any one time are unpaid. Not only do they readily do all the necessary drudgework, they help to depress the wages of paid journalists there. In the end only a small fraction of interns get a job.

How can the management of a publication with the New Statesman’s pedigree defend what they are doing? I can’t think of a better media organization to take a lead and start paying interns, or provide them with a sufficiently useful learning experience that they don’t have to.

Internships at the heart of new social mobility policy

We’re obviously excited. Nick Clegg’s social mobility policy is taking unpaid internships to task. Articles in The Telegraph and The Guardian, as well as a report on the Today programme have underlined the importance of making sure internships are available to all, not just those whose parents can afford to put them up or ‘whisper in the ear’ of their mate at the ‘tennis club’ (does anyone actually do that?)

From the BBC:

Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg says he wants to stop people getting on in life purely because of “who they know”.

As he launches the government’s social mobility strategy, Mr Clegg said no-one should get an unfair advantage because their parents have “met somebody at the tennis club or the golf club”.

He is planning to end all informal work placements in Whitehall – and will encourage businesses to do the same.

From the Telegraph:

He urged firms to make internships – often a vital gateway to a chosen career – more transparent and financially viable to the less well-off.

That meant covering out-of-pocket expenses or offering a wage.

Companies are being asked to sign a new compact including a commitment to ensuring fair access to internships.

Whitehall is set to lead the way, with Civil Service internships advertised formally from 2012.

This is fantastic. For an Internship campaign group this is surely the equivalent of Christmas. But we weren’t called ‘admirably bolshie’ for nothing. The devil will be in the detail. If I was Harriet Harman – due to question Clegg on this at 12 – I would question and ask:

Most importantly, if you read the report, detail on NMW is hazey at best.

We will continue to encourage employers to open up their employment methods, and we are asking business to offer internships openly and transparently and provide financial support to ensure fair access. This financial support could consist of either payment of at least the appropriate national minimum wage rate, or alternatively payment of reasonable out of pocket expenses in compliance with national minimum wage laws.

We want to improve understanding of the application of national minimum wage legislation to internships and ensure that employers comply with it. Where an individual is entitled to the minimum wage they should recieve it and we take failure to do so very seriously. We are updating our guidance on payment of work experience including internships to ensure that employers and individuals are clear about their rights and responsibilities. We will ensure enforcement of the national minimum wage continues to be effective, and resources are focused where they will have maximum impact. Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs are currently considering targeted enforcement in sectors where internships are commonplace, with a view to carrying out enforcement activity in 2011/12. Young people who feel they have had their minimum wage rights abused are encouraged to contact our confidential Pay and Work Rights Helpline on 0800 917 2368.

We hope this does not mean an update on guidance which allows employers to get out of paying interns minimum wage. The law as it stands is currently very clear. If you work set outs, doing set tasks then you are due minimum wage.

The Independent writes:

HM Revenue & Customs will launch a crackdown in professions such as law and journalism where work experience is commonplace, to ensure that people are paid the national minimum wage or receive out of pocket expenses.

Ironically – the Indy is currently being taken to court for not paying an intern. Crucially the or receive out of pocket expenses” offers an easy get out clause.

Anyway – lets not be picky just yet. Lets celebrate that internships are center stage in the news agenda for at least one day.

Isn’t it ironic, don’t you think?

It’s like an organisation campaigning to highlight the effects of living in poverty paying their workers £10 a day…it’s a free ride, when you’ve already paid…

Thanks to the reader who brought this cracker to our attention, RESTLESS DEVELOPMENT, WHAT ARE YOU THINKING?

I just wanted to point out that Restless Development want to hire an intern for their ‘Live Below the Line’ campaign which challenges people to live on £1 a day. They will pay this intern only £10 a day for lunch and travel expenses ironically… Someone needs to tell Restless Development that the ‘line’ is relative.

Charlie Sheen is looking for an intern….. errr

Deadline: March 11th, 2011

Position: Full-Time, Paid

Timeframe: Summer 2011 (8 weeks)

Description: Do you have #TigerBlood? Are you all about #Winning? Can you #PlanBetter than anyone else? If so, we want you on #TeamSheen as our social media #TigerBloodIntern!

This unique internship opportunity will allow a hard-working, self-motivated, creative, resourceful and social media savvy individual to work closely with Charlie Sheen in leveraging his social network. The internship will focus on executing a social media strategy that will build on the success Charlie Sheen has attained in setting the Guinness World Record for the fastest time to reach one million followers on Twitter. The #TigerBloodIntern is expected to be proactive, monitor the day-to-day activities on the major social media platforms, prepare for exciting online projects and increase Charlie’s base of followers.

You will learn how to promote and develop the social media network of Hollywood’s most trending celebrity.

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Interns Anonymous

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