I wanted to write about my experience doing an internship at Proud Gallery in Camden and Charing Cross, London. I was supposed to be there for 3 months full time but only stuck it out for a month. They use their interns as free labour, not even paying travel expenses. I wasted so much time and money on travel at this place. The jobs I did included cleaning the kitchen, cleaning the gallery, painting the walls, and scrubbing the outside of the building. I did do some research but apart from that there was alot of re-doing press books which didn’t even need to be done. It was as though, they were trying to make us feel like we were being given constructive things to do as well as all the cleaning, but there was no need for it. I even had to travel around London collecting and dropping off deliveries (at my own expense!). There was a time when I had to pick up a huge, very heavy box and they refused to pay for a taxi, so I had to lug it back from the other side of London on the tube, throwing my back out.
The managers were rude, they never spoke directly to me, even when I was standing right beside them, and would only give us instructions through the ‘head intern’ who was in charge of us.
I am really writing so that no-one else has to go through this. I didn’t meet one intern who was happy with their experience and even some of the ‘paid’ staff were only paid £15 a day, (for a full days work). I was so angry about all of this at the time. I learnt absolutely nothing working there. When it came to my last day, I just left, no one said goodbye or anything. They have so many interns rolling over constantly, I was just another in a sea of slaves for them.
Hope this helps anyone else come to a decision if they are thinking about working for Proud: DON’T!!!!!
Hi,
This company has a long and undistinguished record of using illegal unpaid workers and continues to recruit regularly. I would be more than happy to help anyone who has done unpaid work for this employer to get you the pay you should have received by helping you make an application for it.
Please let me help – apart from being it well worth your while financially it will stop this company exploiting young people! And if you don’t want to make a claim but have time to let me know more about what this company does, please also email me.
My address is derrywatson@gmail.com.
Best wishes
Mark
I can’t say enough how common this story is. Proud has an appalling reputation when it comes to interns; and people ‘who know’ see it as a joke – a bar masquerading as a gallery.
I had an interview for an internship there a couple of years ago. The manager forgot I was coming, then forgot I had arrived, then made me stay until the end of the day as a ‘trial day’. She was obviously desperate for help, needless to say I turned down the opportunity and have been trying to dissuade people from interning there since!
To quote a friend: ‘not a day goes by when someone doesn’t cry there’
Gallery Girl
Hi Gallery Girl, I’d love to know more if at all possible! Entirely anonymously is absolutely fine – my address is derrywatson@gmail.com.
On the contrary, If you accept an unpaid position, especially at such a prestigious gallery, you should be willing to aid them in any way- they are after all, providing you with a reference.
I have just completed an intership at Proud Galleries myself and found the experience hugely enjoyable.
The staff were friendly; maybe you didn’t present yourself in a very personable manner?
And as to commenting on staff wages, one’s personal earning really aren’t of any concern to anyone else.
I shall continue to remain in contact with proud, and advise you to be cautious of the term ‘slander’ should you choose to continue this campaign.
“one’s personal earning really aren’t of any concern to anyone else”.
That is utter nonsense. If people are being used as unpaid workers that is an entirely legitimate issue of concern for everyone, and this company has been using unpaid interns for a considerable period of time, and clearly not in an acceptable way if this personal testimony is to be believed.
Rather than making vague legal threats, how about Proud Camden cleans up its behaviour and stops using people in this way? A reference does not put bread on the table or pay the rent, and is not an acceptable alernative to paying the legal minimum.
Why are you being so aggressive, this site is here for interns to have their say but you jump in at every possible moment, you have had your say, please let people make their own judgement, I took an internship knowing it was unpaid, I made that choice of my own accord, I needed the experience in a specialist field, it enabled me to make a leap into a career path that I wanted to follow, by completing a series of unpaid internships I ended up with a paid job but that was purely on the back of my experience that I couldnt have gathered any other way. I understand this rule in other fields of work but the arts is a career very hard to pursue and most graduates are aware that this is the only way, without it we would have no possible way of securing a job in a top gallery/ museum at a young age as we would never be immediately recognised for our talent and it would take a lot longer for us to climb the ladder of success. Proud Galleries gives many opportunities to interns that show initiative, in fact when I interned there three years ago all the staff at that time started at the company as interns, I was given a lot of guidance, we all shadowed Managers to enable us to gain knowledge in a field of work I wanted to follow and mostly I felt part of a very close team, a family and I am thankful to them for kick starting a very good career for me in the arts.
In case you hadn’t noticed, there is plenty of room on this page for your comment as well as mine and I’m sure people have wit enough to make their own judgement on the issue, despite me offering my point of view.
Yes, doing unpaid work is the only way to make a career in the Arts, however that doesn’t make it fair, justified, right or acceptable. Better yet that people don’t have to do unpaid work and that career is open to everyone, irrespective of whether they can afford to work unpaid or not.
You may well have come out of Proud Galleries with more experience but that does not mean that that organisation should not be paying their unpaid workers. You may also like the place, but not everyone has had such a great time there, and people clearly should have been paid. It isn’t some kind of charity, it is using unpaid workers – there is nothing noble and beautiful about that, in fact quite the opposite.
Mark
What exactly is your interest in the interns using this site? You seem to be persuing every comment anyone is making saying that you can help. To be honest it sounds like you are just touting for business. What exactly are you going to do? Sue one of these businesses on the intern’s behalf and take a hefty cut? Suprise suprise.
Anyone with sense will steer clear of this man. He is obviously out to get something.
As I am sure you are well aware Sarah (as other Proud Camden workers are), I offer my help entirely without obligation or expense to anyone.
All I am interested in is seeing that interns get the pay to which they are entitled and to help them through the official processes to do it – no “cut” possible, expected, required or desired; call it “working for free”!
And on that front, thank you for the reminder, I should point out that the offer still stands to any intern who would like to claim the money they are entitled to – including and most especially anyone who has done unpaid work at Proud Camden!
derrywatson@gmail.com
My friend was ecstatic to get an internship there a few years back. She quit after a few weeks. She basically echoed this post and also said there were so many interns working there that there would never be a chance of a job…
Wow. I cannot believe people are still caught up in what they feel are the injustices of a few years ago. well here’s a reminder to you all; life isn’t always fair, life isn’t always how you imagined ot. We’re not all paid as we wish, in the career that we wish, leading the life that we wish- but sometimes, very rarely, some of us are given an opportunity to help ourselves. Not everyone will want or appreciate this opportunity, but some of us do. If you don’t enjoy what you are doing- quit. But don’t try to disgrace the establishment that offered the oppertunity to so many people that wouldn’t have had it otherwise just because your own personal financial or egotistical standards weren’t met.
Every one is entitled to an opinion, and I suggest you respect that, inspite of your own. Pass as much judgement as you like, but do not try and dissuade people from embarking on what could be a life changing and positive experience. As that, my friend, is the selfish act.
We live in a utilitarian country, and you do not possess the the authority to decide which opinion is the correct one for everyone. Let people make their own decisions.
And yes, I am proud of my time at Proud.
did proud teach to spell?
Dear oh dear, with all the time spent on these postings, it’s a wonder that anyone manages to do any work at Proud Camden; maybe that’s why they need so many unpaid workers!
In case you hadn’t noticed Eleanor, it isn’t a case of “your own personal, financial or egotistical standards”, it’s about the standards of society, one that rightly decrees that people are entitled to a fair minimum payment for their work. Commercial organisations like Proud Camden like to conveniently ignore that and retain more of the profit from their activities by not paying their workers; not anything for them to be proud of, but pretty loathsome behaviour by any standards and well worthy of the publicity it is gathering.
Hi all,
I also had a negative experience of Proud – only three days into my internship at Idea Generation, I left. The company was poorly managed and from what I could make out, the account managers were not very talented at PR… There’s also an unusually high turn over of staff. I later found out all sorts of odd things about drug abuse and relationships between juniors and the top dogs. It put me off PR completely!
–
Proud Galleries and Idea Generation are two entirely different companies though?
I believe Proud Galleries sprung from Idea Generation, as IG started exhibiting art work in their space as of 2008. Both companies are run by Alex and Hector Proud – brothers.
run by brothers but completely different companies and do not cross over in any way.
They are two completely different companies but Idea Generation do all Prouds PR and have got ALex Proud out of the shit. He treated photographers (as well as staff and interns) badly by not paying them. Luckily for him his bro headed the PR to help Proud regain it’s status as a reputable gallery. However the saying “You can’t polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter” is very apt.
I use to work at proud this year and one of the weeks I couldn’t due to the lack funds and the fact that my council benefits hadn’t come through yet, I had to take one of the days off and I got someone to cover my shift so that the gallery wouldn’t be in trouble in case of anything happened, this is the email that I recieved from the head intern at Camden.
Hi,
I need to confirm a few things as your text message was not clear.
As it stands you didn’t find anyone to cover today’s shift, but you have arranged with Tom to swap shifts Wednesday – Saturday. I have spoken to Tom and you will not need to swap shifts, so no need to come in on Saturday. Therefore, as it stands you are then due back in on Thursday and Friday this week?
I understand that the you may not physically have the funds to get to work, but continual lack of attendance is not acceptable. I know I stress the procedure of finding cover for your days, but that is for ‘one off’ days and not for a series. You had made a commitment to this internship, an internship which was made abundantly clear that it was full time and unpaid. Therefore you needed to make any necessary arrangements prior to your start date.
If any intern is frequently unable to attend their selected days, that internship will be terminated.
Until Thursday, can you please work on the designs from home. As they are due to be completed by Friday.
Camilla McDonald
Assistant to Gallery Manager
and here the response to the email,
Hi Camilla,
I am sorry if the message was unclear. I will continue with the work at home of coarse and be in for work on Thursday and Friday. The situation with the money is that while i have been lucky enough to recieve private funding, this does not cover travel costs and despite my best efforts to organise this prior to starting the internship, the council have been less than efficient in processing my application. As it got to the point where i have no money left i am using this day to meet with the council and urge them my situation requires immediate attention.
I am sorry for the seeming lack of consistency, but i also do not want this to be a hindrance to my internship contract nor my ability to commit and am doing my upmost to resolve this swiftly.
Thankyou for your understanding in this matter.
I was travelling from Maidstone to Camden an hour and half each way 93pounds a week!!! I went into the job knowing its unpaid but the fact that I was waiting for my benefits and I didnt even have money for food and they had a number of interns i thought they would understand but they didn’t care.
i know this is suppose to anonymous and I am sorry, but this was so out of order and unnecessary her name needed to be in there.
I was traveling from Maidstone to Camden an hour and half each way 93pounds a week. The two days that I was waiting for my benefits to come in i got that email, i didn’t even have money for food or bills. i know this is suppose to anonymous and I am sorry, but this was so out of order and unnecessary her name needed to be in there. also the email that I sent she never responsed to it
Lloyd- this needs to be a post on its own…and naming is entirely up to you!
I had an internship at Proud (Central) a few years ago and found that you get out of it what you make of it.
Some of the other interns there were literally counting the days and some left early, but I enjoyed myself (and I know the majority did too) and gained friends and experience. They have always been more than happy to supply me with references, and it looks good on your CV.
I remember at first getting weary with the type of work we were asked to do – sometimes bullshit errands (you are expected to get the tube/bus using your own money) or desperately tedious counting of postcards, but the longer you’re there the more you’re trusted and the better the work you’re asked to do. There was a group of interns while I was there and ocasionally we weren’t very well organised by the managers, and the structure of the internship is not the way it is advertised on the website. However, if you work hard and make sure you get your face known to the employee in charge of whatever department you’re interested in you’ll find you get a valuable experience. Also, you get to go to openings and the occasional party.
Nevertheless, I’ve had an unpaid internship at a different organisation and it has to be said that the structure in place for interns and the sense of value and achievement I got working there was vastly superior to that at Proud. Also, at my other internship I was paid travel expenses and given lunch vouchers which makes a huge difference and really makes you feel appreciated. Whilst at the Proud interview I agreed to working voluntarily and without expenses and was happy to do this, but looking back I really think they should pay travel expenses as a minimum.
I look back on my time at Proud very fondly, but others should go in with eyes open – you are working for free and sometimes the jobs are boring.
DO NOT INTERN AT PROUD!
I stuck it for a day and a half. The person supervising me was unprofessional and rude. I believe it is even more important to know what your duties are going to be when you are working for free. In the corporate world (not somewhere I want to be) interns are given a full breakdown of their roles and responsibilities and they will be gaining practical and valuable experience in a field or position. I was not prepared to pay to clean. I could earn £15 an hour cleaning a gallery. We all know that galleries need to be kept clean, and that sometimes there is going to be little in the way of meaty work but the atmosphere was far from dynamic. I wasn’t told anything about the exhibition that was on and spent 90 percent of the day and a half sitting by the front door unable to answer questions that visitors had – its not a nice position to be in. I like people, and I am happy to get my hands dirty – there was no likelihood of this internship becoming anything I wanted it to be. I have heard so many negative things about the company since leaving and I believe that Proud is simply building a ‘sexy brand’ not an established and impressive art gallery. Its not sexy by the way.
Heu Jessica,
I stuck it out for a week, until I was handed some bleach and gloves to clean the toilet that was regularly used and …well…unpleasant! Glad to hear you got out of there. If you were stuck at Central … with that particular “head intern”, I know your pain!
I get the feeling Elanor still works at Proud :)
I was really disappointed by Proud. I was thrilled to have the opportunity to intern there, despite not being paid.
I read this article on my first morning and thought to myself ‘no way will it be like that! i’ll make it great!’
But no.
I was faced with mindless jobs, setting up the shop, and vague research that will never be seen by anyone else but me. I was also made to run errands, like a cheap delivery boy, and pay for it all out my own pocket. I also doubt any of the managers even knew I existed, indeed it is true about being in a sea of interns.
Two days in, I received an offer from another establishment that would give me better work – needless to say, Proud is being left behind.
I find this a really interesting post. I had an exhibition there some time ago and I found the whole experience awful. Hector Proud was an arrogant bully who undermined my work and continued to bully (by email) after the exhibition ended. I did feel quite sorry for the Gallery Manager (but she’s still there so it can’t be that bad for her).
Hector Proud (and his brother) have a terrible reputation for being manipulating public-school idiots and I really wish I’d listened to those who warned me before I went with them.
Sorry to hear all your horror stories. If you’ve got some family money, a good education and a posh voice it appears you can treat people however you want. It doesn’t change the fact that they’re a Christopher Hunt though.
All these comments are true. I have done several internships and though at all places the jobs interns are given are generally quite menial Proud is one of the most unpleasant and aggressive environments I have ever worked in.
It seems the whole purpose behind their “internships” are free labour.
I would bet you anything that Eleanor is a member of staff definding the place, much like most of the venue reviews that you will read on the internet!
Hi anons…if any of you fancy getting in touch and telling us more about your experiences please do!
Thanks,
Rosy
IA
I am two weeks into my internship at am thinking about leaving. I was a bit worried that I my decision to leave was made quickly but after reading this blog I am reassured that my gut instincts to leave were right. Everyone is lovely enough but I get the feeling that I am here just as an extra body and am given pointless research tasks that never get checked.
It isn’t about the money because I was aware that I would not be paid however my experience is not worth the amount I am paying for my travel card.
Wish me luck!
Wow, I’m due to start as an intern with Proud very soon. I don’t quite know what to do now – part of me knows I should withdraw but on the other hand I could do with the experience and should just see for myself.
I had the same idea of ‘trying it out for myself’ after I read this thread – what a waste of time that was!
Proud is god-awful to it’s interns, no one will know your name, you probably won’t meet any staff unless you’re delivering mail, and you’ll sit on your bum 9 til 5 doing nothing of use. They will take advantage of you by sending you across London to deliver packages out of your own pocket, and they will make you clean the ‘gallery’, or according to a fellow intern, the toilet too!
Basically, its a farce. I lasted 2 days before moving on to another internship, which though unpaid, couldn’t have been more different.
I know its hard finding arts experience but this isn’t the kind of experience you will want.
A plea to all considering interning at proud. DO NOT DO IT.
On my first day, A.Proud came into the office screaming, shouting, kicking the bin and punching the wall because the club hadnt made any money that weekend. Everyone’s job was threatened on the basis that if they didnt make money the next weekend he would shut the place down!
the staff bar 1 were rude and dismissive. they told me that they can’t be ‘nice’ to me because the are so used to interns walking out that they see no point in being nice and getting to know someone!
the club manager referred to me as the ‘fucking work experience girl’ and refused to learn my name.
I was told there was no chance of being hired due to lack of funds, this was also the reason why the internship was completely unpaid.
my manager came in on many days hungover and wouldn’t acknowledge me till around 12pm. and then have the cheek to ask ‘what’ i’ve been doing all morning :/
After that horrific month, i now don’t even have them as a reference as A.proud has got rid of the pr & marketing team, which is the department i interned under. so my ‘manager’ no longer works there, nor does anyone else that i worked alongside!
It was genuinely a waste of time and money.
Proud are still at it. This appeared on their Tumblr site (http://proudaloud.tumblr.com/page/3).
How not to get a job @ Proud…
Dear Flylet,
Would you be available for a trial shift this Saturday at 9pm. It’s a non paid trial 3 hours from 9pm and then let’s talk?
Interested?
Best regards,
Proud Manager
Hey Proud Manager,
Thanks very much for taking the time to get back to me, I would love to work for Proud Galleries.
However, I just have one question before we go any further… Its appears from your mail, that you are a moron. Is this correct?
You seem to have inferred, from my application for a pathetic Camden Flyering Job, that I have the time to stand around in the cold on the street and work for a popular Central London Club for no reward.
I will promote your club for three hours on Saturday night from 9pm, from the comfort of my own bedroom, with both my hands in my pants.
In exchange for my work, I ask that you pay me the hourly rate advertised on Gumtree.
Then lets talk?
Disgruntled Flylet
WTF? They expect people to stand around in the cold giving out fliers FOR FREE, as if this is genuinely valuable work experience. This isn’t ‘the arts’, it’s a profit-hungry bar which makes money by not paying its staff. Disgraceful.
Good on this dude for telling them where to shove it, though!
I have to say, the majority of comments stated above have really surprised me! I am a current part time intern of 4 weeks at the central Strang gallery. I have yet to meet and/or hear from the seemingly infamous Alex Proud, nor have I ventured forth to the Camden location. Do I want to??
I have to say that during my time at the gallery I have experienced nothing but a friendly, welcoming atmosphere from all the current staff, who have gone out of their way to give me what would seem a full and fruitful experience within all aspects of running a gallery. This includes staff at Chelsea!
Admittedly I have been through my share of monotony on a couple of occassions which has had me questioning my commitment to a role which has no financial benifit, but surely, even in a paid role, a gallery assistant must go through the usual mundane drivel?
I have on a number of occassions, been sent around London on errands, but this is not something that has bothered me. On the contrary, I’ve really enjoyed it. I feel like I’ve benifited from discovering first hand what framer or mounter a company uses or where they go to pick up enlargements. Though this is purely on the grounds that (and this is something that shocks me in the above string) that I am ALWAYS provided, by one of the team, with a travelcard and so refrain from spending my own money on running such errands.
I took this role (which I commute from Manchester each week to) with every intention of forming new and important relationships, proving my own worth as an assistant and hopefully standing myselfin good stead for future opportunities and, unless I am being taken for an unbeleivable fool, I feel these hopes are materialising, at least a little.
I did an internship at Proud Galleries about 3 years ago. It was the worst experience EVER.
I had actually worked in Galleries prior to my internship in other countries, I even ran a Gallery with 5 others but I thought I would do a short internship here to perhaps learn something valuable or at least to have it on my CV while I was in the UK.
I am currently starting a Gallery in Melbourne with one other person and I just want to emphasize to people wanting to get into the art world, you do not have to stoop to the level Proud Galleries makes you to get experience.
There are plenty of other Galleries you can gain more valuable experience from. In fact smaller galleries would be more beneficial as you aren’t expected to just clean and be spoken down to by a bunch of prissy stuck up cows.
Every other intern who I spoke with in my time at Proud despised how they were being treating. This one experience is the only bad one I have from my 2 years in London.
I can think of a few examples of poor mistreatment (although after a month I threw in the towel, well they actually let me go as I called in sick with the flu and was told I need not return.)
So on my first day I showed up wearing all black and nicely dressed as I was told I would be minding the gallery. My entire day was spent painting the walls as the Gallery turns into a bar at the weekends and the walls get destroyed (this was one of the main tasks for interns).
The next day one of the oh-so-unfriendly gallery women (not sure of their actual position but they obviously thought they were too important to communicate with interns as though they too are human beings) stood over me, I was sitting at a chair clicking the counter keeping a tally of how many people entered the gallery, and she said “Please open that drawer,” so I did, then she said “I need selotape, rummage for me”. Without a word of a lie, she was closer to the drawer than I was and she was leaning down, looking in the drawer as I was doing it, but felt she was to goddam precious to rummage so I had to do it for her!
On a daily basis things like this happened but I won’t go on, it’s actually bringing back how horrible the experience actually was, you’d think you would actually be pleasant to free labour so they’d stick around and try do a good job, instead they obviously preferred the scare tactic, I honestly felt like I was in prison, the other interns kept their heads down and hardily said a word, occasionally whispering that we could talk after we finish, or kind words of encouragement “Don’t worry, she’s a bitch to everyone”.
On my final day, it was snowing. I had the flu, (I was slightly concerned it was swine flu, but you can’t call in sick if you’re working an unpaid job apparently). So I turned up and we had to set up for an opening. I was actually quite excited, this sounded like the most productive task I had ever been involved with as so far I’d literally cleaned, painted or counted things.
AND we got to work at openings, by either taking photos of the event or handing out information.
So despite having a flu, the excitement gave me strength. I had to walk through the markets, up the slippery cobblestones to a van filled with large heavy frames, I only had one other person help me, (another intern) not even the man in the van helped us.
It took about 2 hours of back and forth heavy lifting, in the snow.
We were saturated, cold, weak and shaking.
My heart broke when we were finally inside setting the frames up near where they were to be hung inside the gallery, when the other intern leaned over and said “Do you know interns aren’t even allowed to help at tonights opening, I think famous people are coming”
So turns out, the minions do all the work, get no thanks (let alone no money) and in return are made to feel ashamed of and cast aside. I hate this gallery and everything it stands for. If you want experience work at one thats not run by someone who hires bar staff that have to dress as playboy bunnies. He is only in it for one thing and it is not ART!
I worked there a few months ago – city branch. They paid me for a few weeks but then refused to pay me the rest of my wages (months on) claiming I was working illegally…clearly they don’t have the money to pay people and were looking for excuses.
Just to let you guys know the bar staff
DO NOT get Treated any better!!
I worked there 2 years as bar and floor
Staff. I witness all that you guys have mentioned and far more.
EVERYONE was on drugs. Even at 9am Monday morning and that includes manager and a certain middle class prick who’s name ends in x.
Numerous things happened but A LOT of us all quit after not being paid
Just before Xmas!!!
This Is when they were raking it in. Especially at that time of year too.
We’d not been Paid properly
In months and that was the final straw (as well as A and Managers stealing £100s in cash from our tips!!
A lot of staff were due to travel home to see family for xmas and couldn’t
As a result of not
Being paid.
Not been back since.
I wasn’t an intern but I worked for Proud in the bar. They treat all their workers like shit, no respect. Alex Proud is a womanizing coke head. What more can I say, NEVER work here. NEVER go here.
If you need to be paid-beware.- – The Proud galleries do have a well-earned reputation for not paying their bills. Alex is knowledgeable about photography. P.R. Hector comes across as the ‘straighter’ of the 2 brothers. However his business and gallery Idea Generation has gone bust.-
The only people writing anything good about Proud on this forum, are interns that Proud gets to write for. They troll through websites like this and try and make the place sound like a reputable business.
Proud and Alex are just one big sinking ship.
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